Game On! Podcast featuring guest Dan Ryder
In this episode of GAME ON, host Adam Bellow speaks with innovative educator Dan Ryder about his journey in education, the evolution of customized learning, and the importance of creativity and design thinking in the classroom. They discuss the impact Dan’s teachers have had on his life and the role of games in learning. Dan shares valuable advice for both new and seasoned teachers, emphasizing the need to lean into joy and create engaging experiences for students.
Dan Ryder - Director of Design & Innovation
About Dan Ryder
Dan Ryder is a veteran educator, improviser, design thinker, and idea wrangler. He’s coauthor of Intention: Critical Creativity in the Classroom and co-creator of Panels and Perspectives: Comics in the EFL Classroom. After two decades in the English department, he now serves as education director of the Success and Innovation Center at Mount Blue Campus, a rural regional high school in Farmington, Maine. Dan is also an Apple Distinguished Educator and a national recipient of the Horace Mann NEA Foundation Award for Teaching Excellence.
Game On! – Guest Dan Ryder - Transcript
Adam (00:01.065)
All right, welcome to the Game On Podcast. I'm your host Adam Bellow, and I'm so excited to be joined with just an incredible educator, someone who's been doing a lot of cool stuff in education for a long time. The one and only Dan Ryder. Dan, welcome to the Game On Podcast.
Dan Ryder (00:14.584)
Hello my friend, it is so good to be here. I have to point out the awesomeness of your backdrop versus the bland, Holiday Inn by the bay stairwell of mine. But, ehhh, when you get asked to be on Game On, you don't worry about where you're going to be when you record, you just say yes. And,
Adam (00:38.711)
Well, I appreciate you taking the time to do this and, you know, yeah, that's awesome. So I know you're at a conference. You said you're in Portland.
Dan Ryder (00:41.854)
yeah! I'm stoked.
Yeah, Portland, Maine, the better Portland. Not that I'm judging, but it is the better Portland. Yeah, it's the National Summit for the Collaborative of Customized Learning. And mass customized learning is like this idea that came out of Chuck Schwann and B. McGarvey's work a bunch of years ago now. But it's about the idea of how can we scale up providing a more customized learning experience for
learners and families and facilitators and do so in a way that doesn't drive us insane. Right? How do we find efficiencies so that it doesn't just become personalized learning plan, Palooza. It becomes, this is how you access the customized parts when you need it. And here's how you kind of stay with the flow when you don't and et cetera, et cetera. So it's a lot of talk about proficiency based systems and a lot of talk about like, well, this
Dan Ryder (01:45.056)
week. Have you heard about AI? It's a thing. A lot of people are talking about it. No, I'll spare you.
Adam (01:47.629)
No, tell me more. No, that's awesome. Well, before we dive into that, I I think that that's great. And I think for those listening, you know, a lot of people, you know, I'll talk to people and they're like, yeah, it's so nice. The teachers get the summers off. It's like, no, they spend time like prepping for their year or bettering their craft. I just came back from ISTE, obviously you're an event like everyone's investing in what, you know, makes them a stronger leader or educator or whatever it is that they're doing in the school.
Kudos to you for being there and learning as well as sharing. We didn't introduce you yet. So I know you actually, you and I started, think, in the same career path. I was a high school English teacher. I believe you started as a high school English teacher long ago as well. Not that long ago. You're still a young guy, but yeah, of course.
Dan Ryder (02:24.494)
Yeah, we're still spring chickens. So yeah, I'm a trained high school English teacher. Did that for a little over 20 years. Went from being, well, I was never that traditional, but my grading was traditional. Like, but I did weird stuff. We all do weird stuff, right? We're like, I had, but I had kids like analyzing Aquabats and Blink 182 to lyrics, like my first year of teaching. Right. And,
Adam (04:05.887)
Amazing, amazing, yeah, yeah,
Dan Ryder (04:10.012)
and kind of got to be known as the guy who does the weird geeky things in class and such. then that kind of led into, it was right at the time when technology, we were getting beyond one computer classrooms, right? So to have one computer in your classroom was a big deal. And then we had just started to get into having like carts, right? We called them computers on wheels, cows, right? And we had these
big think pads that were like the size of like your, your arm, you know, and, so I kind of got into the technology side of things, cause it was exciting. And so I kind of became the English teacher that uses technology a lot. And that led into project based learning. And that led into, design thinking. And that's when everything really shifted. When I found a community of educators on, on,
the app formerly known as Twitter. We, like I found this community of people talking about using design as the angle in for learning. I was like, wait, what? And the hashtag DTK12 chat, which still exists where it's kind of, it's, you know, like anything you just kind of like, sometimes things just live their life and, and, you know, there's still people involved and, and what, but it's okay. You kind of like say,
It's all right. It's all right. Let's not try to force it. It evolves it becomes part of the ethereal mists of learning and it just surrounds all of us, more like a spirit guide than anything else. But that community was super active, super involved. And I shifted all my English teaching to teaching through a design lens. So it became problem solving through literacy. So solving the problems in novels.
Adam (05:38.003)
evolves.
Adam (05:43.551)
Hahaha
Adam (06:03.018)
Awesome.
Dan Ryder (06:06.986)
You know, how might we design a tiny house to help the characters in of Mice and Men find safety and security? How might we design sanctuary spaces for the characters of Speak? How might we, like my AP Lit class, was find their independent projects were find a novel from the approved list and then design a solution to the problem facing either the protagonist or antagonist and build a prototype. mean, half the kids want to be engineers anyway, so why are we not like leaning
Adam (06:31.637)
That's very cool.
Dan Ryder (06:37.034)
on what they really want to do. None of them wanted to be lip majors. So what's the, why, what, you know, and they still did fine on the test kids. Spoiler alert, they all did fine on the test. Shocking, shocking, achieving students did well on an achievement, yeah, on a test. But that led to, that led directly into starting this, this program with a colleague at Mount Blue.
Adam (06:49.973)
Shocking.
Dan Ryder (07:05.376)
We piloted this thing called the Success and Innovation Center, and it was a combination of makerspace and social work office. And it was really a problem -solving studio for everybody on campus. So any kid, any teacher, any staff member could walk in the door and say, I need help. And we'd say, what can we help you with today? And my favorite true story, I tell this one a lot when people ask about it, it's
Adam (07:13.675)
That's awesome.
Dan Ryder (07:32.842)
You know, in the same morning we had a kid walk in and say, I don't know where I'm going to sleep tonight. We had the valedictorian walk in and say, I don't know how to give my speech. We had a teacher saying, I am so bored of my final that I can't give it. I have to do something different. And then another kid said, Hey, if I don't pass biology, I can't do sports. So. And that was one morning and we handled.
Adam (07:57.673)
And that's Then
Dan Ryder (08:01.484)
you know, we handled all of it and we met kids where they were at and, and, um, it was, it was really cool. We had a lot of success. Um, and, and the grant, uh, finished and, uh, there was just a difference of opinion about whether or not it was worth, um, investing local dollars into. Um, and, uh, with that difference of opinion, I decided to leave. Um, and so I left my home of 20 years and I came to where I am now.
which is a community regional charter school, which is a free rural public charter school in central Maine. And we serve 400 kids pre -K through 12 plus, because we even have kids doing most of their first year of college with us. And now I'm serving as the director of design and innovation for the fantastic CRCS.
Adam (08:47.903)
That's cool.
Dan Ryder (08:59.2)
And it's super cool and fun. get to do all this crazy stuff that, and I get a little bit, to, you know, if someone's like, wow, that's a really cool title. How'd you get that title? And I'm like, well, I wrote it. And they're like, wow, that was a really good idea. Like, yeah, right? It's a good title. But it does speak to what I do. Cause I get my hands into everything. Some of the tech stuff, some of the learning stuff, some of the family connection stuff. Some of the, yeah, I love it. I love
Adam (08:59.296)
That's awesome.
Adam (09:09.513)
That's right. That's right.
Adam (09:16.469)
That's awesome.
Adam (09:26.347)
That's awesome. And it's funny because as you're talking about like the, you know, I did the Kooky English teacher stuff, I'm thinking to myself, I'm like, same, like analyzing lyrics, we had a project we used to call Soundtrack of Your Life, where the kids would literally build a playlist for the, I mean, it was amazing. Yeah.
Dan Ryder (09:37.802)
Yes! Right? If we do a playlist of your life and then you do a playlist of a character and you do a playlist of like, it's the best. Right? Right?
Adam (09:45.419)
Yep, 100%. Yeah, yeah. So very kindred spirits in that way as well. You're also an author. I know I had the pleasure of reviewing a book that you and Amy Verbal wrote in 2019, I want to pretend I remember. Was it around then, right before the pandemic? And that was about creativity and it was incredible. I don't know if that's, I would imagine it's still available, but.
Dan Ryder (09:55.115)
Yes!
Yep. It was in the late teens. It was in the late teens, yeah.
Dan Ryder (10:08.032)
Well, thanks. Yes. it is. It is. It's called Intention, Critical Creativity in the Classroom. And I actually was just speaking on it. I did a couple of sessions here at the conference around the ideas in it. Yeah. And we're now published by the fantastic John Spencer and his Blend Learning. you know, he, our original publisher kind of whooshed.
Adam (10:20.394)
That's awesome.
Adam (10:28.842)
Love, John.
Adam (10:32.885)
That's great.
Dan Ryder (10:36.372)
into the ether, so to speak. And John was was gracious enough to let us become part of part of that, he and his wife and it's, it's, we're really, excited to discover that it's, it's as evergreen as we were hoping it would be. Because you must know you you know, you've written and you've got stuff out there and you know, with all the work you've done, like, we're
Adam (10:44.629)
That's awesome.
Adam (10:56.085)
That's awesome.
Adam (11:03.635)
Some of it's evergreen, some of it is not.
Dan Ryder (11:05.298)
Right and you like you're like
at this brand new thing called a QR code and you're like well good thing QR code stuck around because you never know if it's gonna be the Betamax.
Adam (11:14.687)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No,
This is true. This is true as a former Google Glass wearer. I've ridden the wrong trends. I do have a large collection of HD DVDs that I bet on many, years ago. I've been wrong just as many times as I've been right.
Dan Ryder (11:32.854)
But you keep that one TV. You keep the one TV that you can play them
Adam (11:36.539)
Yeah, exactly, Somewhere I probably do have it because I'm a pack grabber. That's a different story for a different day. A long story, I mean, listen, what I love about, you know, knowing your work and knowing both the writing and the stuff that I just, we were talking before we jumped on, like, I reached out because I just read an article that you did for, or were interviewed for an article in Tech and Learning about games and education. Obviously, I was like, hey, we should totally chat. So what I love about it is
you've had the 20 years of classroom experience and you're still learning through practice and you're calling in from a conference. I think that that's the type of educator that I always look up to. It's the folks that are really doing the work and still being able to kind of have their fingers in and make difference that way. So, thanks for taking some time to chat.
Dan Ryder (12:23.766)
Well, geez, yeah, but part of it is, and I appreciate the kind words, and it's also like, I don't actually know how else to do it. If I had a stronger will or sense of self, I'd probably be like, I probably don't have to keep going to stuff and learn, I could just speak or whatever. I could probably be an admin who's not with all the kids all the time, or not trying to figure out a way to.
to offer a class or seminar, but it's like, I don't get how to do that. I'm kind of flawed. So I just end up going, going, going, going, going to other things, detriment probably, but it just feels like what you should do, you know? We'll paint it with a positive, right? Thank you. Hey, my therapist would really appreciate you helping me reframe that. I'll let her know.
Adam (13:09.865)
I think it's authentic. I think it's not flawed. It's, I mean, you know, like let's paint it with a positive, right? So yeah, there you go. Exactly. Exactly. So, no, I mean, honestly, I think that that's great. So I do have a bunch of we like to go on through the Game On Podcast. So we'll get started. Yeah, well, hopefully it'll be fun. you know, our level one questions are icebreaker. And I always like to ask people like, you
Dan Ryder (13:28.096)
Yeah. I'm stoked. Cause these are great questions.
Dan Ryder (13:36.107)
Yes.
Adam (13:37.407)
We're a game company. What games did you play as a kid? It could be video games. could be, you know, card games, board games, whatever. Like, what was your jam as a
Dan Ryder (13:45.42)
So I had quite a few games. I was lucky, kid of the 80s, right? Like I will maintain that I grew up in the golden age of everything. People can fight me, bro. Like I really, I really truly believe it. Cause I had an Atari when I was four, right? And so, and my favorite game to play on there was Star Raiders. Cause it had this touch pad that came with
Adam (14:04.764)
awesome.
Adam (14:12.767)
Yeah, yeah.
Dan Ryder (14:13.664)
And I build this cockpit and like a tent with the chairs and put the blanket over it. And then set up the TV in front and, and put the touch pad down low and add the joystick. And it became Star Wars, right? Cause you could just tell any story you wanted. Like, and that's what it was. And then most of time I was just like punching and random things and hitting the hyperspace button and hearing it make that weird. And I played that.
Adam (14:21.035)
That's awesome.
Adam (14:30.955)
That's awesome.
Adam (14:38.664)
You
Dan Ryder (14:41.924)
endlessly and endlessly and endlessly. And so that was like, that was one of those like formative video games. And then and then we played a ton of board games, especially with my grandparents. They were super like, just game, game for it. But they you know, and so I played everything from the these old 1940s 50s games like tour this game called pouring. That was like a like a racing game but with cards.
Adam (15:08.491)
OK. OK.
Dan Ryder (15:10.924)
But it was like from, I want to say it was like from 38 was like the copyright on it. so we played that. But my favorite game that came out at that time was Scotland
Adam (15:18.699)
It's awesome.
Adam (15:26.126)
yeah. Yup.
Dan Ryder (15:27.22)
Remember with the, where you're chasing down Mr. X, right? And it's, it's really supposed to be like, you know, Jack the Ripper or whatever. And then they're trying to get away and you have the little bus tokens and subway tokens. And so there's hidden movement and man, and I had no idea at the time, just how impactful that game has been on all these hobby games.
that are like, it has hidden movement and it shows that you show up every five turns. Yeah. You mean like Scotland yard? Wait, what? But yeah, those are, those are the, those are the two games from my, my, earliest years. And then going further, like it just goes into Genesis and NES and well, NES and Genesis. And, I was never cool enough to have a super NES and then PlayStation and
Adam (16:03.508)
Yep, that's a good
Adam (16:24.808)
Yeah,
Dan Ryder (16:25.848)
getting my first PlayStation from my then girlfriend, then wife. She got me PlayStation, I got her a leather jacket, it was a fair deal. But yeah, and I've just been obsessed with games ever
Adam (16:35.697)
That's good deal, yeah, sure.
Adam (16:43.221)
That's awesome. Yeah, I was reading the article you wrote and how games are important for classrooms. mean, is there anything that you play now or is there games that you're advocating, you know, kids play in your school?
Dan Ryder (16:53.492)
Yeah, so I keep a little game library at school. We don't play it nearly as much as I'd like. Just, there's a lot going on. But some of the games I really loved in the classroom, I love Carcassonne, the tile laying game where you build a kingdom. It's easy to score, it doesn't really matter. You can score it hard, score it easy, whatever. But it's quick to learn.
Adam (17:09.917)
Mm -hmm. Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dan Ryder (17:21.878)
I like Ticket to Ride for the same reason. Like it seems like it's complicated, but then you're like, wait, this is all you have to do? Like, yeah, but it doesn't make it easy. You know, we play a lot of Love Letter, because you can break it out and do it. Quicks is the dice game of champions. You know, it's Yahtzee, basically. So we bust a lot of stuff, and then I have like this collection
Adam (17:32.651)
Yeah, that's fun.
Adam (17:42.773)
Yeah, Quicks is fun.
Dan Ryder (17:50.764)
slightly slightly crunchier, like not really like we're not like we're not breaking out Imperial Twilight or Twilight Empire or whichever, I can't even remember, Twilight Imperium is that? Anyway, nothing takes 12 hours to play the roles as much as I want to do that. But we've got copies of Catan and we've got Betrayal at House on the Hill and some of these others
Adam (18:03.915)
And nothing that takes 12 hours to read the rules.
Dan Ryder (18:20.17)
that can be a social experience type thing more than a, well, let's play this game so that we get, you know, we, we, we, you know, learn all about X, Y, Z thing for learning about things. prefer to have them design games rather than let's play the game about the thing. And it's not because there aren't great ones, but I'll find one of those and bring it in as like a, Hey, let's look at this game and see how they handled it. Right. And, you know, let's look at white hall and see what they did with it. Let's look at diplomacy.
Adam (18:22.153)
Yep. That's awesome.
Adam (18:37.291)
Totally.
Adam (18:46.037)
That's awesome.
Dan Ryder (18:49.834)
and see how they handle it. Because I'm not going to teach you to play diplomacy because you're not going to enjoy it.
Adam (18:55.057)
That is likely true. That is likely very true. That's super fun.
Dan Ryder (18:58.486)
Right? And I'm also not going to play at risk with you guys because that's not how war works. It's like geopolitics doesn't work. It's just like, well, I rolled the die and I got more armies.
Adam (19:08.575)
Certainly not these days. Yikes. Yeah, that's awesome. So I love the fact that you've played games and obviously made it a part of your classrooms and your school now, which is super, super fun. I feel like we've kind of talked a little bit about your history, at least in job history, but what's the origin of that? What made you want to go into
Dan Ryder (19:30.182)
a hundred percent because I was the nerdy, dorky, I wasn't even nerdy. Like I didn't even get to nerd level. I was that kid that people are like, he's in that class? Like, here's the roster. And then there's that kid. Like in middle school and high school, like especially middle school. New kid to town, didn't know anybody, hadn't grown up with everybody. And so.
my teachers became my lifeline. Like they were my safety net. And it wasn't because I was like in danger or threatened or like I didn't have like a particularly, I didn't have any more of a traumatic childhood than most suburban kids of middle -class parents in the eighties and nineties did, you
Sometimes they fought, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes I got along with them, sometimes they didn't. Sometimes I wanted to stay in my room all the time, sometimes I went outside. I had a fairly prototypical family situation, but not having a social group at school after growing up as one of the kids in a smaller town where you knew everybody and everybody just did everything together to shift to that.
Adam (20:45.173)
Yeah.
Dan Ryder (20:52.97)
during my adolescence was brutal. And I had just teachers who just like saw value in my propensity towards making jokes of everything, but not making fun of people, just making like the observational jokes and putting humor into things and trying to do something creative and telling stories through whatever we're making. So my eighth grade teacher, Mr. Kimball, shout out.
He has his own podcast and radio show every day at four o 'clock on WZON. I think he's on WZON in Bangor, Maine. Rich Gimble, still a middle school socialized educator. He was, it was his first year of teaching and he was also a sports broadcaster and I was the only person in the class who realized that. So we walk in the class, I'm
Adam (21:37.216)
Wow.
Adam (21:48.843)
That's cool.
Dan Ryder (21:52.512)
He goes, yes, I am. I turned to all my buddies, I'm like, do you know who this is? And they're like, no. Like, you don't watch the news. Like, this is a God. You know, like, that's how I saw it. Yeah, local sports guy. And I'm just like, the floor. But he was so good to me and just so kind and funny. and it was just.
Adam (21:53.578)
Ha ha!
Adam (22:05.109)
That's awesome.
Adam (22:11.883)
That's so cool.
Dan Ryder (22:20.24)
laughing so value in this weird kid and to this day I got into improv comedy, he got into improv comedy, we do shows
Adam (22:29.483)
That is so cool. That is awesome. But I mean, it goes to show you like how impactful it can be. know, that's such a cool story.
Dan Ryder (22:30.986)
Right? Isn't that like, right? So that was kind of the trajectory. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and bringing it back to games. Like it was, every, every, every month we started a new season of the news game where you read the newspaper and answer questions every week. And, newspapers and education, baby. Another, another eighties, joy that is no longer,
Adam (22:51.691)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Adam (22:59.669)
That's right, current events.
Dan Ryder (23:00.316)
Man, that was good times. And it was always me and Molly Tomlinson head to head on who was getting more points. and, and, that, like, I loved it. I loved it. Like it was the best. And it was just trivia from the newspaper from the week before, but it was like, it gave kids who didn't always feel like they had social capital, like value, right? And, and it was so cool.
Adam (23:13.386)
That's awesome.
Adam (23:25.301)
Yep, that's awesome.
Dan Ryder (23:29.26)
And that just carried on and I wanted to do for kids what Rich did for me. And I did the classic like, I'm gonna be their friend. And then you get like the day two of student teaching, you realize the folly of that thinking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. so, but I never turned back. Like I never changed my mind.
Adam (23:44.917)
Yep. I got to day four or five and it really was like Rude Awakening at that point too.
Dan Ryder (23:58.06)
from that point on that that's the thing that I wanted to do since comic book artistry wasn't going to work out so great. When I realized you have to draw the same thing more than once and the backgrounds and quickly and well and there's a lot and I got stressed out at 12. Oh yeah, yeah, that's what that was a video game designer and comic book artist. Those were the two things I wanted to
Adam (23:58.261)
That's awesome.
Adam (24:10.707)
and quickly and well and yeah,
Adam (24:17.579)
Is that, that's what you originally wanted to do though as a kid? That's awesome.
Adam (24:26.016)
That's awesome.
Dan Ryder (24:27.64)
I still have my little weird journal from when I was in fourth grade that has the game I designed in it.
Adam (24:35.519)
That's awesome. That's so cool. But you know, the joke is I always think about this is like, so I went to film school and originally I wanted to be a filmmaker and was going to follow in the path of Steven Spielberg. was my dream as a kid. But I always think about it and I'm like, you know, the same way you're, you know, the book about creativity or the presentations you've done or even your design thinking work, like all of that probably has roots in those passions as a kid. I think about all the time with presentations, I'm like, yeah. I know it. Like I know.
Dan Ryder (24:57.992)
yeah. and your stuff does too, right? Like all of that desire to be a filmmaker, I mean, and once you know that about you, because I didn't know that. And as soon as you just said that, I'm like, dang, that makes all of this, like, it all matches
Adam (25:16.179)
It's a weird thing. Like the thing that you're passionate about, you could kind of mold it into what you wind up doing. And I think, you know, for so many kids, it's like, I always tell my own, the children that live in my home, I tell my boys, I'm like, listen, just be passionate about it, whatever you do. Like, you'll find some way to make that part of it. Like they love Dungeons and Dragons. I'm like, you might not work for Wizards of the Coast, but you definitely could take all the things you're doing as skills and learning and all that stuff and push it somewhere else.
Dan Ryder (25:24.383)
Yeah!
Dan Ryder (25:42.528)
Well, absolutely. and, my friend, Robert Condon, who had taught with for years and he taught, personal finance and economics. and he had this great phrase he started using with kids and, started pushing. He used to do a class in like how to become a millionaire. Right. And it was all about how you save your money and, and, you know, compound interest and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And it was cool. It was great, but he shifted it into this entrepreneurship.
mode, oh, 10 years ago or something. And it became much more about how to sustain an entrepreneurial spirit to basically keep your one house going, like to support your family, not to make a bazillion dollars, but can you provide for your family and be comfortable and plan for your future and do
And you own your business only has to support your house. It was like, it was such an interesting shift. What that led to was having conversations with kids around, you know, if you, if you do it right and you work hard at it, you could write like modules for, for D and D self publish, get them up into bundles on, on itch .io or, or in any of the different, the different publishing.
Adam (26:47.509)
That's smart.
Adam (27:04.319)
Yep. Yep.
Dan Ryder (27:08.776)
opportunities that are there. Now, are you going to make a bazillion dollars doing it? Probably not. you there's a, you know that the owners of those ones that have lasted, they've got sustainable income, right? Frog God and a few others. That's it. So you can do the thing you love. can experiment with turning the thing you love into a job, which has its pluses and minuses too,
Adam (27:25.041)
of course. And it's something that they love doing. You know?
Dan Ryder (27:37.716)
Like I thought improv was going to be like this, like, yes, I'm going to coach. I'm going to start this thing. It's going to start as a side hustle. And then it's going to eventually going to quit teaching because I'm just going to do this. And it like a year and I'm like, I still want to love doing this. And if I keep doing these workshops, would not going to love doing this anymore. So, so it shifted, but, but yeah, I think. Yeah. I loved it. love D &D.
Adam (28:07.947)
Yeah,
Dan Ryder (28:08.808)
They should all get all their stuff up on the Game Master's Guild or whatever.
Adam (28:12.037)
Well, my son's working on spending a summer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's actually building his own module for something. His goal this summer is to get it up on, I don't know, Kickstarter, but some sort of service. I was like, yeah, great.
Dan Ryder (28:25.868)
We have a group of educators who didn't know how to play and my buddy was really, really good at it. And I had just started playing right at beginning of the pandemic. And so then we got the three others in and we played on Zoom, started playing every Sunday night and we still have the group going. Yep.
Adam (28:40.106)
cool.
Adam (28:47.851)
That's awesome. That's awesome. I mean, feel like that was such a good pandemic activity for people that have, you know, can just jump online and do that together.
Dan Ryder (28:55.795)
yeah. absolutely. Absolutely.
Adam (28:58.069)
Yeah, thank goodness for Stranger Things for making that non -stigmatized for today's kids. no, that's awesome. I mean, we talked about passion a bit. feel like, you know, there's so many, I feel like you're saying stuff and it's making my brain go, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I totally like, I'm loving it, I'm loving it. So, you know, we're here, it's the middle of summer. We're getting ready for back to school. What are you excited about for the year to come?
Dan Ryder (29:13.932)
You do the same thing to me.
Adam (29:26.313)
whether it be like your own personal learning or whether it be like people in your school.
Dan Ryder (29:28.372)
Dude, so much stuff. Right? Man, so I'm one those weird people that you get to the end of June, other people want a break, and I'm just like, can we just take like a week and then get right back at it? Like, not with all the kids, not with everything, but just like, I just get so excited about ideas of what we can do next. So this year I'm excited to really, last year I said we were gonna do
but we did the baby steps that we really needed to do the year before to start our esports program. So we're going to have the esports and I'm excited about it. We're doing it as an independent club. We're not tied into the state's like athletics program, which gives us a lot more flexibility and freedom for us, which is what we need. Like our kids don't stay after school. We have no homework. Our kids come from 18 different towns.
Adam (30:09.803)
Mm -hmm.
Adam (30:18.485)
Got
Adam (30:25.301)
Wow.
Dan Ryder (30:25.92)
To school, some of them travel a little over an hour to get there each day. And so for equity purposes, we have a longer school day, but there's no expectation of homework. And there's no after -school clubs and activities because we don't want a kid not to be able to do it, just because, and be shut out of an activity. So yeah, some people might be like, well, what about for the kids who could do it? Yeah, I get
Adam (30:49.183)
I love that.
Dan Ryder (30:55.168)
But there's also, that's when they should talk to their towns and say, how come my town doesn't have things or, know, like, and there's nothing stopping them from having their green or a little club that meets somewhere at the library or whatever. Like you guys can still do it. You can, right. And kids can still play sports, but we don't have sports programs. They go and play for the local, the town that they live in or that where they would go and play. And we make that all work with transportation and stuff. So, so kids don't get shut out.
Adam (31:17.993)
Dan Ryder (31:25.26)
But it makes things like an eSports program need to function in a different way from another, a typical scholastic one. So I'm really stoked about getting that going finally. I'm really stoked about how many more people have capacity to 3D print in our school. More people are learning how to do it. Megan Gibbs is amazing. She just is willing to learn stuff and teach herself.
and try things and my colleague, Ruchia Cassiani, she's got a 3D printing farm going at our elementary school and we've moved beyond the tchotchkes. We're now into like kids actually making things.
Adam (32:06.345)
I was just gonna ask you that. Yeah, I was just gonna say, I'm like, are they printing off Thingiverse or are they designing their own stuff and printing that, which I love, that's awesome.
Dan Ryder (32:13.108)
Right? We've pushed beyond Thingiverse. It's find a Thingiverse that you like. yes, so you get to see the process. Cool. Now you've made one. Great. Now what are you going to make? What are you going to solve? What are you going to create? What's original? What's new? Yeah. And so those, that idea of leveraging all the cool crap that we get last year that we just started to use. We've got a planetarium. We've got a star lab with a grant.
Adam (32:40.971)
That's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
Dan Ryder (32:42.508)
So what can we do with that? And I'm like, dude, guys, the movies, the things that we can make, things that we can make. But what about the planetarium software? Sure. But look, yes, there's stars. Great. By the way, how can we make a 360 degree video of anything so we can get it in here? So yeah.
Adam (32:55.221)
That's awesome. So cool.
Adam (33:06.933)
That's super cool. I love that. I love that. So that's what you're so the new eSports program, more 3D printing. Any challenges that you're looking to tackle this year? Of course, of course it will
Dan Ryder (33:16.33)
yeah. no, it's going to be perfect. I don't know. hear other schools have challenges. None? yeah. Yeah, yeah, had to do it right.
Adam (33:27.589)
I'm glad you solved that. should write another book on
Dan Ryder (33:35.464)
How to do it right, in parentheses, a lie. No, so we're bumping into challenges that everyone bumps into. Finding a staffing, and it's especially challenging for us because we're mission and vision driven. So we can't just be like, well, let's just find anybody who can teach content, or let's find anybody who has that certification. They really also have to be a fit.
Adam (33:39.125)
Hahaha
Dan Ryder (34:05.312)
Right? And they have to, they have to be part of something that's bigger than themselves, in order for it to work. And that's okay. Like, but it's harder. Right. And, and because we are a charter school, there's a of assumptions people make without doing the research necessarily. And I hate using that phrase even, but really finding out like, wait, you guys don't cherry pick. Like, no, we don't. Trust me.
There's no like spend one day in any of our buildings and there's no way you could possibly assume that we only take one type of kid. We have every type of kid from every background, from every situation. And we're designed to like, that's our intent is to give every kid who decides to come with us an opportunity to have a project based, a customized to their particular needs. And we say customized because it really is about.
Adam (34:41.63)
Dan Ryder (35:04.08)
like making choices that lead to your experience being what you're looking for as opposed to personalizing, which is like, well, take the thing that we gave you and then see what you can do with it to make it yours. Right. That's the distinction that, that B. McGarvey makes. And I think it's a, a fair one. It can be a little nuanced for kids, but they start to get it when you realize like, wait, I don't even follow the same schedule as this other kid.
Adam (35:18.399)
Got it.
Dan Ryder (35:32.672)
Like I don't even like my schedule, my days like all cracked out like in different ways. And I get these, I do this. And you're like, yeah, because we know you want to learn things. So we found a way to structure your day that better fits how you learn the things. But it's not just going in and saying, well, you can pick between these three, these three activities, like, or these, the, you know, these project choices, right.
It's more than just, well, you could read the book or listen to the book. It's like systemically over time, how do we make sure that everybody can access those choices all the time? Not on a one -to -one basis, but on a, obviously everyone can pick the format that works best for them because they're making that choice and their choice may be just like somebody else's choice and that's okay.
Adam (36:26.027)
Do you think that that's spreadable to other schools or do you feel like it's the benefit of the fact that your school set up the way it is with the number of students and teachers and?
Dan Ryder (36:34.464)
Well, the summit I'm at is all about spreading it. but it's curious because when, proficiency based really hit every standard space, however you want to, wherever you are, change your name. We like, I like proficiency based. think it, better describes what's happening. there was a big movement of it here in Maine. There is a big pushback, pretty severe backlash and made it really hard for some schools to keep going.
Adam (36:45.065)
Sure.
Dan Ryder (37:03.87)
A lot of them kind of dropped it. They kept little pieces of it. But there were a handful of schools that held tight to it. And this was before I came over. Like I joined the school because it was one that held to it and still believed in what I was absolutely all in on at a more traditional school and risk averse, change averse, et cetera, et cetera. Right. So it is possible.
It's super possible. It's hard. And we don't do it exactly right. mean, it's the point is that we're all still figuring stuff out because no matter how, no matter how you try to change a school, there are things about school that make school, school that are always going to be causes of friction and, and people wanting to like, you know, rip their hair out and I don't have any left. You don't have any left. We've got nothing. There's, there, right. It's done.
Adam (37:42.397)
Sure.
Adam (37:57.227)
I've I was there a long time, that's for you, come
Dan Ryder (38:02.4)
This is not an option anymore. but instead it's just foreheads and like worry lines and stresses and veins, because it's school, right? And anytime you have systems of power and hierarchy and decision -making and not decision -making and gatekeepers and stakeholders, it's just, it's human. Right. So, I think we do a better than average job of,
moving through all that stuff. And I think, and really to go back to your original question, can other people do it? Yeah, absolutely. But it does take.
Adam (38:33.759)
Yeah, that's great.
Adam (38:42.079)
takes that mindset shift.
Dan Ryder (38:44.104)
It takes that mindset shift and everyone's at least gotta be headed in the same direction. Even if they disagree like violently about how to go down that road, that's fine. At least we know we're going down that road.
Adam (38:57.983)
Yeah, yeah. mean, listen, I think that's true in life. It's, you know, with schools or businesses or whatever. That's always like, if you're swimming in the same direction, you're bound to get to the same spot, as opposed to people going in different rules. So, I mean, that's a good segue point. I guess we'll kind of wrap it up because I know our time is running short. But as we head into a new school year, and as you talked about what's possible and what you're excited for, and then some of the challenges as well, what would...
Dan Ryder (39:03.701)
Yeah.
Adam (39:26.545)
know, would advice be, whether it be for a new teacher or whether it be for a seasoned teacher, like what would your advice be for people going back to a new school
Dan Ryder (39:35.424)
lean into the joy, just like, do the, and what I mean by that is there's so much cynicism and it's so easy, I mean, just this morning I sent the most cynical text message to my super good friend and principal Elizabeth, because I was just feeling, just like, this ain't gonna happen. Like, this idea I have.
that I want to do just can't happen. It won't happen. Why am I even trying? Da da da da da da da da da. Right? And, and it's so easy to go there. So I had to like, well, I went and did two sessions and during those sessions, like while I was running them, I just leaned into the ridiculousness and the joyousness of making original games in one session and then just doing critical creativity experiences with goofiness and, and, but also
did some like, there's some really cool thinking happening in the room about color theory and how using colors and giving each of them individual names can be used to apply to all these different things. And we were doing some stuff with, with, transforming the lyrics and just transforming the fonts and the colors and, and for meaning. And we got talking about civil rights movement. mean, it just started going into all these cool places, right. And that was cause
This isn't like, this isn't like a, because you did it my way. No, because I had to remind myself, like lean into the joy of it. Like, this is exciting. This is fun. And it's hard. Right? everything you like, but that's the thing that I think we get really caught up in the frustration points. And it doesn't take long to fall back into that. Right?
There's a reason why we do what we do and why we want to do what we do. And if it's coming from that, that place that that's authentically good, because I don't know that many people who are teaching these days just for the summer. Cause that's not a real, I don't care how many people whose next door neighbor was a teacher in the seventies are like, no, they did just to get the vacation time. Okay, fine, whatever. But there ain't nobody doing it for, for six weeks, air quotes off.
Dan Ryder (42:00.428)
Like nobody is doing it. Well, it's not six weeks. It's three months. No, it's not. No, middle of June to end of August is in three months. you know, towards the end of May to the first week of August isn't three months off either. Right. Right. Like none of this is like we're so just lean into that because that's kids. It's infectious for kids, too. They love authentic joy.
Adam (42:15.797)
that if you gotta go back to school for math,
Dan Ryder (42:30.506)
They want to experience it. They want to have it. we, every day we get an opportunity to create an experience that allows them to have that, to experience vicariously through us. Cause sometimes that's, I mean, I've had so many kids say like, I don't give a flying crap about this, but you are so into it. Like, okay. Like I went along with the ride. Yeah. I mean.
Adam (42:51.467)
I'm happy because you are happy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. No, but it's true. You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right. And you can make, mean, listen, going back to your own story about you growing up with your teacher that was the sportscaster, it's like those personalities and the way that they approach any situation where there be a student that's interested in what they do or what I mean, that, like, like any human interaction, feeds off one another. And, you know,
I love that. feel like we go in with that positivity and obviously stuff as we know is not gonna always work out. You'll be throwing curve balls day one, but keeping that goal in mind is like so key.
Dan Ryder (43:26.9)
Yeah! yeah,
Dan Ryder (43:31.798)
And I'm sure if a kid was listening to this, they'd like, dude, you were so angry all the time. What is happening? But, but no, I've gotten a lot better about managing that side of, of my frustrations. but yeah, it just, I, I, one there's, we know we were talking about TikToks, right? A little bit ago before that we started recording and like, so we know joy exists in the world because TikTok is built around joy. Whether you like TikTok or hate
Adam (43:35.999)
Hahaha
Adam (43:42.666)
Ha ha
Adam (43:52.725)
Yep. Yep.
Dan Ryder (44:01.844)
Like most of the content on TikTok is about making people laugh, smile, right? And this isn't an ad. This is just, that's just what it is, right? Instagram, you could say the same thing about most Instagram reels are there to make you laugh, smile, have a pleasurable experience, right? Schools can be that without becoming TikTok, without becoming Instagram, without becoming literal song and dances. Nothing wrong with song and dance in a school, right? They don't have to be
to still be joyous, like places where kids want to come because, my God, this was actually like, I did really hard thinking and it was enjoyable because we were leaning into just a joyful experience.
Adam (44:45.609)
I love that. I love that. I mean, it's literally our company's mission is literally unlock the love. I'm like, it's right on my shirt. Yeah. Yeah. Like, but that's, mean, that's the ethos, right? It's like our mission statement starts out and says learning and fun don't have to be antonyms and yeah.
Dan Ryder (44:49.226)
Well, I was gonna say, you're wearing the shirt,
Dan Ryder (45:02.75)
Exactly, exactly, exactly. that's where the serious fun and all that comes in to play. that's where I'm at now with my career. And then when I look back, we've been doing the reflecting thing, Like, what's the thread? the whole time we were doing serious fun. When you were in film school, you were doing serious fun too, right? Like it didn't matter what the story was.
Adam (45:25.663)
Yeah,
Dan Ryder (45:30.422)
You're making a documentary about the saddest thing in the world and you're still doing serious
Adam (45:35.051)
I always say, yeah, I mean, it's totally true. And I always say like, whatever we're doing now, and this goes back to when you were a child all the way through, like whenever we wind up doing, know, 10 years, 15, 20 years from now, it's like, it's all building blocks. And so you're building the next chapter of your own life for better or worse. And that goes with, I mean, literally it goes with everything. It goes with health, it goes with learning, it goes with your job, goes, like all of this stuff is so, so basic. That's exactly true.
Dan Ryder (45:54.587)
That's it.
Dan Ryder (46:01.184)
Right? And it's why we have so many Lego bricks. Lego bricks everywhere. Legos everywhere. They will inherit the earth someday. You know what will happen? It's going to be like Planet of the Apes. And there's going to be the two people running on last two surviving humans are going to be running on the beach. Right? And the horse, Charlton Henson gets off. He's going to reach out into the sands and it's going to turn out to be that beach in England where all the Legos still wash
Adam (46:05.227)
This is very true.
Adam (46:14.475)
They throw one up.
Dan Ryder (46:30.058)
and he's just gonna pull them out and he's gonna be holding like this yellow brick and like they blow it all up. You blow it all up. Spoiler alert. Yes, everything is awesome with the Statue of Liberty shattered in the background.
Adam (46:30.155)
It's amazing.
Adam (46:37.041)
Amazing. And then fade to the everything is awesome song or okay. Yeah.
I love it. love it. I love it. love it. well, I think that that's a great note to end on, Dan. I mean, I don't know.
Dan Ryder (46:52.3)
I know. Well, I think we pretty much just wrote the next summer blockbuster. I hear the box office could use some help. So you know what? Hey, if you're a producer and you're out there looking for something, you get that one for free. That one? No residuals.
Adam (47:00.115)
Yeah, it could. Yeah, we could use AI to create that right now.
That's awesome. So, Dan, I love it. I love it. I love it. We mentioned your book a little while ago, Intention, Critical Creativity in the Classroom. Where else can people either read more about you or find more information about you online?
Dan Ryder (47:24.118)
So, you can find me at DanRyder207 .com. It's a sparse yet magical place. But you can find out more about me there. I'm on social media at Wicked Decent. On the X... Okay, it's Twitter. I can't even say it. can't even say it. It was so important.
Adam (47:45.525)
I know, I know, I know.
Dan Ryder (47:51.5)
And then Instagram, I'm also at Wicked Decent. But really, I'm trying to live most of my professional life on LinkedIn because I'm finding it very fulfilling, which is kind of a cool... But it also might mean, dude, you're almost 50. When you start being like, I mean, I love it on LinkedIn. That might be like a signal, but please reach out. Check out that work. If you get an opportunity, go
Adam (48:02.517)
That's awesome.
Dan Ryder (48:20.716)
AmericanEnglish .state .gov, a free website brought to you by the US Department of State. My good friend Jackie Gardi and I have collaborated on a bunch of projects, but two on there are a deck of cards based on the book called Critical Creativity in Action, totally free to download and print and play the PDF. And there's a 22 page comic book guide to creating comics called Panels and Perspectives that I wrote. And that's also available. So free
Adam (48:45.451)
It's awesome.
Adam (48:50.452)
Love
Dan Ryder (48:50.72)
Stuff that you can buy to help my rising senior consider college more like seriously. Like I just, you know, we can buy her one book with that royalty check. So I'll take it. And yeah, but please, I love connecting people and I love connecting people to other people. So please, please, please, please find me and see if I can help you out in any
Adam (48:57.448)
No.
Adam (49:18.065)
Awesome. Well, Dan, thank you so much for joining me. Everyone else until the next time, game on.